Victoria Stilwell or Cesar Millan: Who would you call?
Cesar Millan and HIS Pack of dogs..
Victoria Stilwell and Cesar Millan are currently two of the most popular dog trainers in America, if not in the world. Both of them have their own tried and true methods of training. There is a lot of debate online and in the media on whether Cesar Millan’s methods are outdated and cruel.
So the questions is, If you had a dog with behavior issues who would you call?
So, this debate is very popular online and so while in the process of training my 3 dogs I downloaded and watched all of Victoria Stilwell’s shows “It’s Me Or the Dog”.. and all of Caesar’s shows, I’ve seen almost every single episode of every season (yes it took me awhile) but now I think I’m pretty familiar with both of their techniques and I can have an educated discussion. I want to hear what you think?
Victoria Stilwell and her pack..of other people’s dogs
I liked both shows ALOT and for different reasons and I use both of their techniques for different situations.. I like Cesar’s concepts like his exercise, discipline, affection rules. Victoria also preaches how important exercise is and I think both of them honestly believe that most behavior issues can be treated if not cured with more exercise.
I personally would never use alpha rolls but I’ve seen them be useful with some of his “red-zone” cases which basically means the dog wants to kill another dog and that really is the only time I’ve seen him use the alpha roll.
I think Ceasar can sense or “feel” what a dog is feeling and like he says he’s not a dog trainer, he’s a Dog Psychologist. He also lives with his own pack of 45 dogs! So, he might just know a little something about pack behavior and dog behavior in general. I think Ceasar is a macho Hispanic man and that is obvious but I think he’s also genuine and I like him. I think he cares about the dogs and you can see that he puts a lot of time into trying to fully understand the family dynamic and in helping these families and these dogs.
I think the pack walk training is pure common sense.. When I learned how to use calm assertive energy when training my dogs it was like a light went on in my brain and I was enlightened by the simplicity of it.. why? Because it worked. I walked my husband through how to do it and we were both able to calmly walk our dogs together for the first time with no pulling. I also taught my 12 year old and my 10 year old the concept of pack leaders and they understood right away what it meant.. it’s so basic and natural feeling and it does work. Dogs don’t follow nervous submissive energy. Dogs follow calm assertive energy.
I’ve also used treats and the clicker (which is what Victoria uses) to train my dogs – sit, down, stay, roll over etc..and YES! it works very well. But when you take away the treats.. and the clicker.. it’s not as easy to keep them “trained”.
You have to consistently go back to the clicker and the treats to refresh they’re active minds..(tap into their food drive). Haha! I’d prefer that they listen to me because they respect me and desire my approval and affection not because they want a food reward.
The clicker and treats however did not work when it came to jumping on us, digging, chewing, biting or a host of other behaviors that can be helped using corrections and simple pack leader dominance. Not hitting or kicking or “alpha rolls” just calm assertive leadership with firm and quick corrections such as Ceasar’s “bite like” touch and his “shh” sound aversion technique which Victoria also uses. At least Ceasars “Shh!” sound is better then the “Ehh Ehh” sound which seems to be very popular with Victoria and ALOT of other people in the dog training world and that sound just so happens to drive me insane and obviously dogs hate it too. Ha!
Victoria also uses sound aversion a lot. Like putting speakers and a video camera in the house of a dog owner and then buzzing a loud buzzer when the dog is caught getting into the kitchen cupboards… but who’s going to do this in real life? Not me. I don’t have the equipment or the time to do that and most people don’t. That is all for TV.
So, I like them both for different purposes and I have a lot of respect for both for different reasons but given the chance I’d personally call Cesar in a heartbeat before Victoria and only because I think in my case he’d be the more useful to me and my pack of dogs plus I get his technique and I’d be more then excited to learn more from him and to hear his input on my pack..
How To Raise The Perfect Dog – On Hulu.com
- Cesar goes back to basics, adopting four adorable pups, and films them living with him and his pack for their first eight months.
Online Links
Here are some links that discuses this debate..some of them are anti-Ceasar and some of them are not.. I just wanted to try and present both sides of the argument and to show just how heated it has become and how strongly people feel one way or the other.
Dr. Yin addresses The Dominance Controversy and Cesar Millan. (some people here really disagreed with this article)
A SAMPLE FROM DR. YIN’S WEBSITE: Back 20 years ago when I started training,
dominance training was the type of advice I gave because it was all I knew. At that time,
like everyone else, the choke chain and pinch collar and a well-timed correction formed
the cornerstone of my methods. Combined with a strong ability to read aggressive dogs, a
lack of fear of being bitten, and fervor for trying to master the techniques of whomever I
could, these methods served me well. Since then, our understanding of dog behavior in
relation to wolves, as well as our understanding of dominance and social hierarchies has
advanced. Wolf biologists now rarely use the term alpha when referring to pack leaders
in the wild and agree that dominant wolves do not force subordinates into an alpha roll.
Victoria Stilwell or Cesar Millan: Who would you call?
Victoria Stilwell “It’s Me or the Dog” – Anti-Stilwell
The Dominance Controversy and Cesar Millan
CESAR MILLAN’S SUCCESS FORMULA “THE DOG WHISPERER” (PDF)
By Judy Huston
What I Learned About Spirituality from the Dog Whisperer (PDF)
Don’t be the boss be the pack leader by Crystal Dogs Blog
Leader is not a 4-letter word! by Melanie Schlaginhaufen
PLUS… a PDF on mastering the walk by Ceasar Millan
Ceasars PDF – Honor the Being – Master the Walk Checklist and Chart (1 of 2)
Official Websites
- Victoria Stilwell - http://www.victoriastilwell.com/
- Cesar Millan – http://www.cesarsway.com/
Please Visit: DreamyDoodles.com to adopt your own Goldendoodle Puppy, we’re in Washington State! $200 off adoption fee if you mention welovedoodles.com
I am a college teacher for safety and health here in Phoenix, Az which also has the second largest animal control in the US at 57,000 dogs a year.
You identified exactly what the issue is. There is nothing wrong at all with Victoria’s methods, except the humans who will not take the time, energy and patience thats it take to work with positive training techniques (and the costs mentioned).
Before I start, the important issue with non-success with Cesar’s way is the issue that Cesar’s way involves a new application from many traditions, just as Bruce Lee did. This means one must learn new language and its correct application. For instance, if I use the word bike and you think I mean bicycle when I am talking about motorcycle, you could be hurt using the wrong techniques. This also happens when one misunderstands correct and safe application, in addition to over estimating one’s knowledge and underestimating the (motor) bike’s (or dog’s) condition.
Many also do not understand the difference of training vs behavior modification.
One other element is when people focus on this term = “alpha roll” instead of what the action is designed to do, ~ interrupt and distract from level 9-10 energy against a human, animal or condition. So MUCH of this is simply undischarged energy, that when released through productive venues such as walks (including the higher pasce achieved by biking, skating or treadmilling) AND dogs with job applications (agility, frisbee, herding, carting…) opens the door for good dog behavior modification to occur at the kind of speeds we see on Cesar’s show.
I only help rescues with problem dog situations of dogs about to be euthanized, short term fostering or multi-state transport. To this point, from my efforts alone, there have been around 45 dogs who now are in forever homes (many of them on my youtube site). I also put together a yahoo email list (currently over 3100 members) that has had over 25,000 other members come in, solve problems and move on from that frequently high volume list and who knows how many others have simply accessed the public archives for further insights and solution applications over the last 6 years the show has been on.
Now, Cesar’s way is moving into rescues where dogs who were abandoned for their problem behaviors, finially have a chance of being correctly rehabilitated for the long term, rather then the ongoing solution chosen of euthanizing.
Further, the more that people use Cesar’s problem dog solutions as you outlined above, the fewer dogs will be, are being abandoned for their problems. I know, because I have helped many owners change their AND their dogs behavior enough to decide to keep their dogs instead.
Again, there is nothing wrong with Victoria’s solutions, I have simply found Cesar’s way to be easier, faster, more long term (and certainly less expensive – g).
I would choose Cesar over Victoria in a heartbeat.
If you follow Cesar at all, you discover that he provides a holistic approach, often resulting in life-changing result for the OWNERS in their every-day lives — thru learning out to project the necessary energy for their dogs!!
With him it is not about treating dogs as “something over there” — it is an integral part of your life and how you are being.
I have been successful within minutes using Cesar’s techniques (and I need help with others)
the biggest reason tho that I am a supporter is that he has continuously demonstrated his commitment to the animals, and to making their conditions in living with us better — and in healing the connection between humans and their animal companions.
However, I must disagree with your evaluation of Dr. Yin’s website — the whole commentary comes from a negative position to Cesar’s approach — starting off by misrepresenting what Cesar does by comparing it to, or associating it with the OLD PUNISHMENT based system of training from old. — Cesar does not PUNISH along the lines of what was previously practiced, and by painting him with the same brush only shows that the Dr. is not providing a fair evaluation (how can you if you are not representing what is actually being done) — however the kicker for me was at the end — links were provided re: “further Discussions re: Cesar’s method” — the only links were for websites offering negative evaluations or criticizms of Cesar’s work — hardly fair and balanced, and also pointing to the author’s own bias.
check out this guy’s evaluation of Positive Reinforcement only approach
http://thek9guy.com/dog_blog/blog1.php/2008/02/21/the-positive-reinforcement-approach-myth
I just love Cesar’s Way, especially the “packwalk” . I have a large pack of dogs and I now often walk 6-7 dogs at one time. Something I did not do before because it would always end in trouble. Since I follow Cesar’s Way a lot changed. I am most of the time “tense assertive” and in the beginning it was that state of mind that blocked my bond with my dogs. Then I started to do the packwalk like Cesar. The results were amazing, I had to work on beeing calm-assertive and together with my pack we worked on teamwork, working with eachother, not against eachother.
Now we do packwalks daily and I feel proud and happy and the feeling you get when walking 6-7 dogs, and all dogs are next or behind you, is so great, I can not describe that, you must feel it. And for the dogs the packwalk is a must, they all bond together and walk in the zone with me and do not interfere with other dogs or other things happening on the way.
And it wasn’t easy because I have many different breeds (Shepherd, Border Collies, Pomeranian, Chihuahua & Jack Russell) with many different levels of energy, but it worked. I am wearing a hipbelt with rings attached to the back side. And I carry a walking stick that I place in front of the dogs while walking, as in a natural way of walking. I walk 45 minutes forth, let them play in the pasture and then 45 minutes back. The dogs love it and are much more in tune!
Greet
Netherlands
I vote for Cesar. Victoria does not really help anyone. She just manipulates dog behavior. Dogs need to know who their leader is. Victoria leaves the dog with the impression that he/she is the leader.
While I’ve only watched a few episodes of Cesar’s The Dog Whisperer and Victoria’s It’s Me or the Dog (a few more epi’s of Cesar’s), I have read all of Cesar’s books, subscribe to his magazine, Cesar’s Way, and have watched 4 of his 5 Mastering Leadership DVD’s. Because I have not done as much ‘research’, if you will, on Victoria’s methods/philosophy, I can’t say I would not pick her. I can say that I would pick Cesar though….if that makes sense, LOL! From the few episodes of Victoria I’ve watched I gather that she teaches interaction with the problem dog by teaching actions (I could be wrong about her only using this technique). Cesar on the other hand teaches behavior patterns.
Cesar’s philosophy is more than a method, it’s a way of thinking, a way of looking at your dog, or your neighbor’s dog, or the dogs at the dog park, etc. I have a better understanding of WHY my dog is snapping at another dog sniffing her, WHY a previous foster chased down a small dog, WHY my current foster was considered “out of control” by her previous owners, the list goes on and on. And that makes me better equipped to handle the situation, any situation, and come out with a more relaxed dog who is taking my lead.
One of my favorite passtimes has always been to observe animals interacting with each other, wild or domestic. It is facinating to me to try and figure out by watching their action and reactions to each other what they are communicating.
I think that is why Cesar’s way appealed to me when I was looking for help to rehab my 1.5 year old 85 pound hound dog 5 years ago from dog aggression. I listened to Cesar speak about what a dog truly needs to be happy and how to build a bond with him based on respect, trust and love. He introduced me to dog psychology. The more I studied it, the more I understood why my dog had become aggressive and how I unwillingly encouraged his outbursts by giving him affection (comforting him) when he was in an insecure dominant state of mind as I was rewarding his aggression.
Cesar’s way taught me how to correct his aggression so that he understood that I did not agree with it plus earn his trust in me to handle situations where strange dogs appeared. That is the role of a pack leader. I accepted the positon so Dango could step down and learn to trust me to handle it. It worked wonders and his aggression lessened.
Next, I needed to re-train Dango how to meet and greet dogs politely so that he did not trigger a fight response from other dogs. I started a play group for people interested in becoming a pack leader to their dogs and I learned to manage a pack of dogs as the alpha. Dango became my number one assistant and would “show” me the right way to deal with certain situations and help me handle the pack.
I started a pet sitting business where we board, live in, and provide daycare for dogs year around. YES, I often take problem dogs and use my balanced pack to rehab them and I provide education to their owners.
Cesar’s way uses a dogs natural communication techniques (sound, touch and body language) to help troubled dogs remember and return back to their natural balanced pack psychology. He teaches true benelovant fair leadership to humans which is admired by all canines. The bonding it creates with a dog is incredible and is such a joy to experience. I love watching all the dogs in my care become calm and balanced canines. A dog with a good pack leader has no anxiety, fear or insecurity. Life is as it should be. They are happy and content. The great thing about dogs that they live in the moment so they can change very quickly and easily with the right direction and leadership.
I am thankful to Cesar’s way for providing me with the knowledge to use my natural instincts to connect with dogs in such a positive way. I LOVE MY JOB and find it very rewarding. I’m sure if Dango could talk that he would want to THANK Cesar for teaching me how to undersand and connect with him in the same way a canine family would.
I have already chosen Cesar’s methods and have had great success with them. My dog is eager to please me after becoming the pack leader and using dominance rituals.
I can’t really go by that anti-review I read of Victoria Stillwell because after reading so much misinformation plastered all over the Internet about Cesar’s techniques I just can’t trust an “Internet review.” I will say however this.. Cesar is always calm, collected, and never, NEVER disses anyone or participates in any kind of negative attack towards anyone. The same is not true for Victoria Stillwell, and having already had success with Cesar’s methods of relating to dogs (NOT training) I don’t see a need to change.
I also went to read the alledged ‘good’ article on Dominance and Cesar Millan but once I read Cesar’s techniques referred to as “punishment-based” (discipline != punishment.. in fact many people do not understand that punishment does not work, and Cesar corrects this in people) I had to abandon reading of the article.
I vote for Cesar.
About 5 years ago I had an 8-week-old puppy come into my life who would teach me far more than I had ever known or experienced about dog behavior, who would challenge my knowledge and force me to expand it or have to break my promise of providing a forever home.
For about two years I tried to make it on my dog experience alone, and he became increasingly dog aggressive and unmanageable. I tried every trainer and technique I could find out about, and when I discovered Cesar Millan everything seemed to fall into place. It all made sense to me in a basic, instinctual way. Now I just had to apply what I learned, build that strong bond of trust….and keep learning.
Two years ago, based primarily on what I learned from Cesar and from my own dog, I took a job as a canine care specialist at a dog day care, boarding & training facility. I’m now the canine care manager and supervise up to 60 dogs per day.
The behavioral changes I have learned from Cesar (and many, many other sources) have allowed me to help create the kind of atmosphere that makes that many dogs happy and able to get along (mostly!). When there is an issue with a particular dog, we will put him or her on a (50-cent!) leash and take a walk. Often we are accompanied by many of the other daycare dogs and it is really a sight to see.
As I said to someone just the other day….obedience training is what you have the time for. Behavioral training is 24/7!
I have been following the Dog Whisperer since season one and have read Cesar’s books and seen many of his videos. I was immediately hooked by his sensible, holistic approach to dog behavior. I watched some of Stillwell’s early shows and, while she has currently shown a softer side, her initial attitude toward her human clients bothered me. I think Cesar has a better rapport with people in general as well as an understanding of dogs.
Both Victoria and Cesar obviously love dogs. I do believe that Cesar’s “way” has more room for flexibility than Victoria’s primarily reward-based training. Cesar remains open to learning new ways and trying new (to him) techniques. In addition to his tried and true repertoire, I have seen him call in clicker trainers, use positive-reinforcement and reward-based training and even pull out a trick straight from Dr. Ian Dunbar’s “Open Paw” method for decreasing stress in shelter dogs (and Dunbar is one of Cesar’s biggest critics!).
I am interested in the comment about Cesar as a “macho Hispanic man.” I am half Cuban and was in college when women’s liberation was just beginning and which made the word “macho” a disparaging comment. Macho just means “male,” and Cesar is an Hispanic male. Machismo is a type of energy that is powerful, confident and secure — in other words, calm and assertive. Thanks to his wife Ilusion, Cesar learned to appreciate the power of women and he thoroughly enjoys being able to empower those previously without power, whether a middle-aged woman with a dog that would pull her all over the neighborhood or an adult man terrified of dogs from childhood and determined to overcome his fear to give a dog to his sons. I have learned to see “machismo” for what it is — a type of energy that needs to be met and balanced with an equally strong feminine energy — or, in the words of Temple Grandin, “different, not less.”
When all is said and done, I would call Cesar in a heartbeat — and invite Victoria Stillwell along to watch and learn!
I’ll introduce myself. I’m the Director of a no-kill animal welfare organization that has integrated Cesar’s Way into our rehabilitation program. By practicing his philosophy, we have been able to keep 65% of the pet owners seeking to relinquish their dogs, in their homes instead.
One common mistake that people make is to confuse “training and obedience” with “leadership”. In my experience, they are different. We train the pet owner, not the dog. Dogs are eager to follow any leadership provided in a calm, assertive manner. If none is provided, then they will make it up, by their instinct, by their boredom, by their needs. Often times this leads to “negative” behavior. All the training and obedience in the world doesn’t help, if their is no leadership.
Many people that contact us have been to a trainer. While they admit they learned alot, most were obedience commands, like “sit”, “stay”, etc.. The problem was, when they returned home, they were still unable to provide leadership for their dog.Many become frustrated and blame it on the dog, not themselves. That’s where we come in.
Cesar and Victoria both love dogs. And both are more experienced with dogs then the average pet owner. The difference for me, is that Victoria tends to use “tools” to get the desired behavior, showcasing her own knowledge, whereas, Cesar turns towards the human’s energy teaching them the understanding of the dog and it’s needs. His “animal, dog, breed, name” rule is important when addressing any dog with unwanted behavior. He has shown over and over again that it’s the human who can teach boundaries, not a “tool”. He uses a .50 cent collar to walk a dog showing us it isn’t the “leash” that brings control, but the energy behind the leash being fed down to the dog.
As far as the “alpha roll”, I address this often. “Crate Training” is far misused by pet owners then an alpha roll. Almost every case that we have, someone is misusing a crate. We encourage crates for a source of denning, and every dog should be comfortable in one for emergencies. But crates should NEVER be used as a source of confinement. If one has to confine their dog, they are not dealing with the behavior or addressing the needs of the dog. This is true for puppies as well. In the thousands of dogs and pet owners we have worked with, including some biting dogs, we have never “once” had to use an alpha roll. What is missed by most viewers of Cesar’s Show, is that the dogs he is rehabilitating, are those dogs that adopters NEVER see in shelters and die behind the dark closed doors simply because they fell victim of the system and their behavior misunderstood by untrained staff. The conflict by those in the industry is that pet owners will try and emulate the Alpha Roll. It’s a weak argument because it simply isn’t happening.
People are not emulating Cesar Millan, but instead embracing his philosophy and searching for a better understanding for their canine companion. What IS being missed, by those naysayers of Cesar’s Way, is an understanding of his philosophy. As long as people continue to view him as a man with a “technique” they will miss the philosophy behind it and therefore convince themselves his “way” doesn’t work. They are wrong!
Cesar & Victoria are both coming into millions of homes every week, teaching pet owners the basics of dog ownership. They search for the most complex cases. That makes good television. I can only speak of Cesar’s Show…these are real situations, with real people, and the results are effective. Yes, he has a gift. Many experienced dog trainers recognize it. Instead of being envious, RVAS chose to embrace his philosophy beacause it works. By embracing it, we share it, and we are saving more lives then before.
We prefer Cesar’s philosophy over Victoria’s methods because he builds pet owner confidence and encourages energy for leadership not “tools” (i.e bark collars, crate training, etc.) to achieve desired behavior. Cesar’s philosophy teaches pet owners the responsiblity, commitment and accountability of owning a companion and how to fulfill their pets needs.
The biggest problem for dogs is not Cesar Millan or Victoria Stillwell, but the industry itself. There are few, if any, regulations to run a shelter, or rescue, or be a breeder. Animals are being adopted, placed, sold irresonsibly by pet owners seeking a companion. They “trust” those in the industry and are being fooled daily by the ignorance and greed. This is a subject that will forever be debated by those who make a profit, and by those who profess to love animals. All are good hearted, animal loving people. But that isn’t enough to save lives. It takes more! Just my 2 cents worth.
Cesar’s way has been very helpful to me with my newest rescued dog. I wish I had heard about him long ago; there would have been many happier hours with previous dogs which had problems that I didn’t know how to turn around.
Cesar brings hope to the average dog lover who has no desire to enter the dog world, other than owning a pet. That may sound like a cop out to some, but my family wanted a dog…period. They wanted a furry companion to romp with and share their lives with.
We had no idea what we were about to embark upon, and unfortunately, as mentioned above in a prior post, the shelter who adopted us the dog, didn’t know the dog’s behavior either.
My kids fell in love with this dog, but he was a Marley (as in Marley and me). He had the most clueless owners around. And I was the HEAD of clueless! I was desperate for help. I went to the local pet store’s training classes, and as mentioned above came out worse then when I went in. Simply becuase now I KNEW what he could do it, but we still were not succeeding.
One night surfing on television I stumbled across Cesar’s show. I remember sitting their in awe of this show. Everything the man said made perfect sense. Why in the world didn’t I think of that? It just all made sense. The next day I bought every book on the shelf, and even the audio books so I could continue in the car. I was a changed man. I was motivated to change my dog.
I missed the most important element for 6 weeks into trying everything…I got it…I understood it. I go out the door first. I claim the furniture. I claim the toys. All humans are leaders even babies. I understand it all. But I missed the biggest part. I don’t think I was ever “calm” when I corrected our dog. I always snapped the leash with a bit of frustration behind it. Why? Becuase the dog was doing somethig I didn’t want it to do. lol. I never hurt the dog, never once. In fact our dog just looked at me with those big brown eyes as if to say, “what?”.
Then I went back and reread Cesar’s Way. I missed so many key elements…walking first. Everything I do now begins with a walk. We will stop our supper and take the dog for a walk, if he’s not behaving. The first thing to do is to remove the energy.
I’m so proud that after 6 months of Cesar’s Way, we had a refined, well mannered dog to such a degree that we now could show him off in public, without incident. And my confidence is ten fold…because I KNOW now, I can handle all situations…because I’m the leader.
Cesar’s way…ALL the way!
Hail Cesar!
Cesar’s are more instinctual and natural. He has 50 dogs, 25 or which are his own in his center. Victoria’s energy and her personality turns you off because she doesn’t treat the humans so well. Cesar on the other hand, treats the humans way better and is understanding of their problem, because their problem is the dog’s problem. He lifts their self esteem and that in turns changes their energy, which changes the dog. Cesar started out learning his techniques from his own dogs in a farm in Mexico. Doesn’t matter how many years of school you went to, some people just have a way with dogs and that’s Cesar. I can go on but pretty much most have posted for Cesar.
Cesar actually has sent out kits to shelters to use his techniques. He has a foundation to help rescues and shelters. If you come to California, there is an actual shop that has a Cesar isle, and I am not talking PetCo.The owner knows Cesar. Cesar started out as a “dog trainer,” and yes has used techniques that dog trainers use like commands but decided to move his direction. He felt that just teaching the dogs commands was hiding the real problems they actually had. He wanted to helped beyond that point. Jada and Will Smith introduced them to the world and glad they did.
Victoria is for the lighter cases, Cesar is for the death-row, in the brink of being put down, last chance dogs. I’ve never heard Cesar give permission to an owner to put their dog down but I have with Victoria, despite rescues were willing to take that dog in. What Cesar considers light cases may be considered the worst to a regular dog owner.
I’ll go Cesar’s Way.
Victoria likes to work with tools more. She automatically throws one away she doesn’t like and rather use a harness. A harness was created for pulling purposes so may not be ideal for all dogs but your couch potatoes.
Cesar could care less about the tools (choke chain, belt buckle, harness, e-collar). Cesar prefers to us a regular dollar rope leash but most of the time has them off leash. He chooses the tool the owner is comfortable with and they would like to hear options he lets them know but doesn’t throw all the ones he disagrees with. H
Victoria likes to work with tools more. She automatically throws one away she doesn’t like and rather use a harness. A harness was created for pulling purposes so may not be ideal for all dogs but your couch potatoes.
Cesar could care less about the tools (choke chain, belt buckle, harness, e-collar, halti, martingale, ect). Cesar prefers to us a regular dollar rope leash but most of the time has them off leash because it is more natural. He chooses the tool the owner is comfortable with and if they would like to hear options he lets them know but doesn’t throw all the ones he disagrees with.
Cesar says that the tool is just an extension of your energy. Doesn’t matter if you have the greatest tool in the world, if you don’t have the right energy, forget it, the dog will not follow.
sorry for the double post, the page refreshed while I was typing because I accidentally hit a wrong button.
I would call Cesar Millan. I’ve been following Cesar since his first season. I was at my witts end with my two golden retrievers. I was ready to give them up. A friend had mentioned Cesar’s show on National Geographic and I watched it. I was so excited about what I was hearing. I knew in my heart that I was humanizing my dogs ( I knew no other way ) and Cesar talked about that. I “got it” that I needed to be a calm assertive leader and it wasn’t going to hurt my dogs feelings if I took control. I had tried “possitive reinforcement” and it worked for some things but not the problems I was having. My dogs owned me. I was the one who needed to change. When I took control my dogs changed. I still have my two golden retrievers. They continue to make me proud and I continue to be their leader on a daily basis. Cesar actually gave me permission to to be a leader. I’m forever grateful.
Victoria has some great ideas and her heart is in the right place for sure. I’m sure she is making a huge difference in the dog world as well.
Vicki Simpson.
I have watched both programs but since I deal with packs–both dog and human–I have found that respect for the nature of the individual and their natural desire to belong outweighs rules that force conformity to human standards. I do deal with many dogs in various states of dog deprication in that their nature to be dog and part of a pack with a calm and assertive leader who can in a relatively short time bring order to chaos to work whenever it is tried. Since I camp a lot, there are dogs everywhere but when they visit our campsite, there is generally calmness and the dogs come to visit! Further, I teach classes and have also found this understanding of pact mentality to be also helpful as students will respond to calm assertive evergy from me as the teacher.
But in both cases, fairness and equal concern for every member of the pack, human or dog, is key. There can be no favorites but individual interaction with anyone who comes under your influence moment by moment.
Thank you for all the information as I am sure applications abound in other areas of life–including personal and social!!!!
I very much perfer Cesar’s way! I have watched Victoria in the past and find she just deals with more with dog training but Cesar, most definately, gets to the problem.
All my dogs in the past always loved catching the water from the garden hose, but my most favorite dog, Shadow, a black german shepherd, liked it but kept getting closer to the handle, until it ended up, he was going after my hand also, and that HURT!
I tried what I had seen Cesar do on his show. I told Shadow to stay and walked away with the hose. As soon as he got up, I walked over to him, assertively, and pointed at him. He immediately, laid back down. Never had a problem with him after that! Was so shocking how all those years, yelling did nothing, but it only took 1/2 minute, doing it the right way, and he knew exactly what I did NOT want him to do!
Thanks to Cesar! He is the man!!!
First off, I want to sincerely thank you for writing what is probably the most balanced and well-researched article on this subject I’ve ever seen (and I’ve seen a lot). This is a very popular (and oftentimes heated) discussion on many websites / blogs, and most of the time opinions are so far swayed to one side or the other – it’s difficult to see any objectivity and common sense. This article presents a fair view of both Millan and Stilwell, allowing your readers to make up their own mind based on their own needs & situation.
To answer the question above (“who would you call?”) fairly – well to put it simply, it all depends on what our goals are. We’re looking at two different things: dog psychology and dog training. Yes, there is always overlap on both sides: part of solving behavior problems in dogs often involves training, and, to successfully train a dog to do anything we first need the dog to be in a balanced, stress-free state of mind and engaged with / focused on the handler.
Educating people about pack structure and pack drive in dogs in my opinion is something every single dog owner would absolutely benefit from. I think the average person doesn’t appreciate just how much pack drive affects behavior in dogs, and how most unwanted behaviors are related to the absence of strong and clear pack leadership. This is part of a dog’s genetic makeup, it’s hard-wired into their DNA and when their needs as a species are not met, that’s when things can go south quickly. Cesar clearly explains how this happens in a way that people can understand and relate to.
Another thing about Cesar is the misconception that he only relies on “negative reinforcement” (an often misunderstood term). I can tell you as someone that has followed the show for years that there is an absolute balance of techniques, and his approach is always based the particular dog / situation he is working with. It is what is best described as “extreme middle of the road” (to quote Pat Parelli, “The Horse Whisperer”). In the last three seasons I’ve probably seen him utilize food / toy rewards equally, if not more so, than using corrective methods.
A quick note about corrections in training / behavior modification – Cesar is a master with timing and knowing when and when not to apply corrections, and at what level, based on the temperament / drive / nerves of a dog. His corrections are always, 100% of the time, fair. You will never see an unfair correction used or advocated by him, and this is a very important point. Knowing how and when to match a dog’s energy to quell unwanted – and in many cases – dangerous behavior, is an art as much as it is a science. He goes to great lengths to explain this clearly.
One last thing to keep in mind about Cesar is that he is frequently working with dogs that have no where else to turn. Specifically, these dogs have already been through numerous trainers with no success, as their owners will attest. Many cases are not simply about charging doors or begging for food or crate anxiety. He is often called out to help people whose dogs are displaying true dog-dog and dog-human aggression. Or anxiety that is actually putting the dog’s life at risk, or at the very least going to cause this dog to be surrendered or worse. He doesn’t give up on these guys, never passes them on elsewhere, and always seems to find a way to solve the issue.
I think on the training side of the fence, clicker and “marker” training is a tremendously powerful tool. It is by far the best and easiest way to shape and build complex behaviors in dogs. When you see a service dog that is helping its owner by carrying out a multi-step task, or an agility dog flying around a crazy obstacle course with grace, or champion obedience dog that seems psychically connected to its handler – these are just a few examples of what clicker / marker training can bring to your training.
I think Stilwell demonstrates the principles and practices of this fairly well, and for the most part applies them to practical, household type situations. I have a few criticisms in the way of her not explaining certain training tools in a fair and realistic way, and many times I feel doesn’t give the full explanation of how a tool or technique can be used effectively. There have been a few instances of mis-reading dogs & situations in my opinion, but for the most part she does a good job at providing the average dog owner different outlets and ideas to get some training done and solve some basic everyday dog problems. Another thing I’ve seen from her is she tends to be blatantly honest with dog owners about where they’re going wrong, which I think can be a good thing in this day and age.
So I think there’s room for both, and for most people it’s going to come down to a subjective choice. Personally speaking, I’ve gained a ton of knowledge and insight from Cesar and I can’t think him enough for that. Stilwell does her thing in her own way, and that’s great too. It’s all about picking and choosing proven techniques and advice from a lot of different professionals, and having an open mind to explore what works best for you as individual.
Keep what you like and what works, throw out what doesn’t, and by doing that you’re creating your own style & success with your dogs.
Cesar…no hesitation! I have seen both shows. I never disliked Victoria Stillwell until she took it upon herself to make a public service type announcement against Cesar (don’t think she said names but it was obvious what she was saying). That is one thingg= I have never seen Cesar do…criticize another professional. He says that all methods are good that help and do not harm the dog.
Cesar often says we get the dog we need and not the dog we want. I see that a lot with my foster situations. It really helps you to learn and grow. The interesting thing is that Cesar’s Way has worked with all of them! Right now I have a shih tzu. When I met him Saturday he sat in his kennel and growled. I waiting for him to come to me and within minutes (using what I have learned from Cesar) he came up to me (growling, peeing, and wagging his tail). Within a few more minutes I seemed to be his best friend! I was able to bathe him and even cut burrs away from his face! All it took was patience, calmness, and letting him come to me on his own terms.
I live with my 4 dogs (labrador retriever, golden lab, chow/shepherd, and yorkie) and a foster or two. Without Cesar I would never have been able to do this. This is not to say that I would never use Victoria’s methods ( I just lost some respect for her). They are for different purposes. Cesar’s Way is a way of life. Victoria teaches training methods. My vet told me when I got my lab not to train him using treats, he should listen because he respects me. I used treats to reinforce when I began obedience training, but they really aren’t needed anymore.
I watch both shows & use both Victoria’s and Cesar Millan’s methods but I would call Cesar Millan in a pinch. I choose him b/c he changed my life. He taught me to be self confident and HOW to be that way which carried on to people in my life. This made a huge difference with my dogs.Before I knew him, my dogs were my “babbies” along with our 4 children. We loved our dogs,, but some of them were distructive,chewed up furniture,stole food etc. they pulled on walks their whole lives. When I first knew of CM, we had 3 dogs. A rottie, who was the “boss” of our house,& wouldn’t let any other dogs in here, a boxer/pitt who’s over excitment caused fights and a lab/corgie who was dominent & ran thru the house barking all day. and started attacking the other dogs for no reason .My Rotti recently died of cancer at 9 1/2yr, but he became my best friend & It became MY house, not his. I could (and did) bring any dog over I wanted to. My boxer is alot more calm & looks to me for direction. We adopted a shep.mix 3 yrs ago using CM methods for picking out a dog according to energy. She’s a great dog. I know how to fullfill my dog’s needs, read their body language, communicate with them alot better & have gotten more intimate with them. They look to me as their pack leader & respect me & I respect them. I do use possitive re. & rewards also.I use whatever will communicate to them individually what I want.The ALL positive reenforcement did not work for us. I am not harsh by any means ,( I give them lots of love & affection, but I give them exercise & disiplain first. I disiplain myself first also.)if I were harsh (by human terms) they would not look to me as leader because I would be unstable in their eyes. Dogs are individuals & need to be treated as such, but as a human, I need to be calm/assertive, I need to get frustration,anger, jelousy out of my life. Cesar Millan taught me how to do that in a very practical way. I will be forever gratefull.
Wow~ I’m so excited with the response this post received and very happy to read comments from people who believe and actually get what Cesar is trying to teach us.
I was amazed by how many anti-Caesar posts there were online. I think the people who are anti-Cesar honestly haven’t taken the time to study what his message really is because I have a hard time believing that if a dog owner took the time to watch more then a few episodes of his show and really listened to what his message is .. that they would continue to disagree with him but maybe I’m naive to believe that. It seems so logical and natural to me but I know some people are set in their ways and will always think discipline is a negative thing. I mean just take a look at all the bad ass kids we have now a days because people refuse to give they’re own children boundaries and limitations and teach them about leadership and discipline. I honestly believe even human children can benefit from the leader of the pack concept in their own human families. This doesn’t mean I’m gonna try rolling my son over on his side until he submits when he’s caught getting into the cupboards. Ha!
I just believe children and people are like Dogs in that we will listen to and possibly follow a calm assertive energy quicker then we will a submissive or nervous energy!
The reason I posted some of the more anti-Ceasar posts and articles was because I wanted people to read both sides of the debate before making their choice.
The article by Dr. Chi.. was the most talked about most complete statement on why people disagree with him that doesn’t mean I agree with everything she had to say. I don’t.
Cesar approaches raising dogs from a spiritual, energy, body language perspective that some people might NEVER comprehend completely because all they care to see is the evil use of the alpha roll and “out dated” dominance techniques. Lame. I believe in what he teaches and I think he has a lot to teach humans and dogs.
I really enjoyed read the responses. We at our rescue have followed Cesar’s Way since 2006….our dogs are tough German dogs, that really need leadership.
I agree in my case I would need to call Cesar, as we always have a pack of foster dogs here, and think they need the energy and natural way of being to establish harmony.
Great opportunity…good blog.
Charlie Sprocket is a goldendoodle in our Dock Diving club that is spectacular. Go to http://www.mokandockdogs.com to see him
@Admin:
The thing is the anti-Cesar people are so charged with the negative energy of hating Cesar that they are not going to watch the show, and even if they do, they are going to already have the expectation that Cesar is abusive and so they will find that everywhere they look. Expectations can be a real killer. Here’s a pretty good article that explains about expectations:
http://tombrown3rd.blogspot.com/2009/12/hazards-of-expectations.html
These people really need to go into watching Dog Whisperer with an empty cup. Without bias, but I really don’t think this will ever happen. To me Cesar’s teachings are more philosophy and spirituality than anything else. It’s all about mastering that calm-assertive way of being. This is something completely absent in all anti-reviews of Cesar’s methods. All they focus on are the corrections or on videos in which they take advantage of what something looks like without sound and without context ,and with an idea of what that is already injected into their heads.
but yes I know all too many animal lovers think animals are weak and need our protection even from the air that we breathe, and as such any kind of disciplinary action is considered evil or wrong.
I am your average pet owner. I’m not an animal rescuer. I’ve never volunteered in a shelter. I’m not a trainer nor have I ever been one. I wanted a dog simply for companionship.
I grew up with “farm” dogs. I put this in quotes because of the mentality behind the term. I was a child. My parents were good to the dog. He was fed twice a day. He had his own heated dog house. He was a Border Collie and helped my dad around the farm.
Skipper never ran off, never found the need to “chase” anything, and would wait for my father to come out in the morning and follow him to the door when he came in at night. But the dog was never allowed in the house. As a kid, I saw nothing wrong with this. The dog was loved. But now, I know, that while Skipper endured the nights alone, he didn’t have to be left outside.
I grew up. Got a job, bought a house, wanted a dog. So Sammy, a border collie mix joined my family of one. Got him from a shelter. Was told he’s a great dog. And they didn’t lie…he IS a great dog. But not for the inexperienced dog owner. Of course, I grew up with dogs, so doesn’t that mean I’m experienced?
Within three days, I had first hand experience of what an “experienced dog” owner really means. I recognized immediately how lucky I was as a kid to have a dog like Skipper. Because Sammy is NOTHING like Skipper was. I purchased every tool there was to get this dog “trained”. And while things helped…I never felt I could trust him 100%. Me and Rudy were being held hostage by our inability to understand each other. I was frustrated and ready to surrender him…until…
I contacted a local shelter. The Raccoon Valley Animal Rescue changed not only my dog’s life, but mine too. And they did it because they use Cesar’s Way. I had no clue of what I was about to do to my dog, nor did I ever think that my actions, my energy, my stress, my happiness, my emotions, would affect my dog’s behavior. And when challenged by one of their trainers, on how much exercise I give my dog, I lost…hands down. I had all the answers in regards to Sammy, I knew my dog’s behavior better than anybody, so I thought. But Raccoon Valley didn’t focus on the dog…they focused on me. I don’t consider myself a weak anything, but I learned quickly I was a weak leader. Weak, simply because I was all about loving my dog, in human form, not creating boundaries or offering my dog the stability that a leader should offer. We discussed rules, boundaries, leadership. I was shown ways to practice this leadership in what some might call insignificant acts. Yet, these small acts, like making Sammy sit at the door instead of letting him charge ahead of me, make a world of difference for both of us.
One home visit, two books and three DVD’s later, I am the leader to one happy and content dog. I no longer fear that Rudy will not respond to his recall. I no longer fear I’ll find my house torn apart by a bored dog (of course I thought he was mad because I left him alone.) And I have more of a companion in this dog then I set out for. But the most amazing part of it all, is the change that happened for myself.
One bold, but caring organization, taught me that balance in my own life, can give me balance in my world, including my best friend. I can attest hands on, that Cesar Millan’s techniques and philosophy empower anyone who opens their mind to his way. He has a gift with dogs that many of us will never achieve. But we CAN achieve confidence, balance and a bond with our dogs that we may never know with people, because dogs want it! They accept it, or at least Sammy does.
I choose Cesar…hands down. And I choose those who support him. Check out the Raccoon Valley Animal Rescue, too! That rescue is one rescue doing great things for dogs (and other animals, too).
M. Roberts & Rudy.
I love reading all of your stories about how a training technique has worked for you, which training technique you pick is not as important as the fact that we all choose to try to work with our dogs, to make a happier and more balanced dog. I love to hear about how someone finally saw the light at the end of the tunnel for them and their dog(s). I want to jump out of my chair and scream Hallelujah! Ok…well maybe that’s a little overboard but honestly I love it and better yet.. I GET it!! So, Thanks to everyone for sharing your opinions and your stories.
No matter what training tool we ultimately choose the fact that we choose one is all that’s important.
I took my dogs to the Animal Enrichment center to be groomed recently.. and the groomer there gushed how well behaved they were for being so young. She asked me if I showed my my dogs and I said Nope. She said well you must spend a lot of time training them.. I said actually No I don’t and I wasn’t lying. I don’t train my dogs I mean they all know how to Sit and lay down but roll over and shake and anything remotely more complicated then that has not been explored too much yet.. to me those commands are what I consider training.
I live with my dogs. There is a difference. My dogs listen to me most the time. I talk to them in complete sentences, not just short one word commands. I don’t think of my dogs as my kids or my babies. They’re my dogs but they’re still puppies and eventually I will train them to impress the neighbors but for now I just want them to behave, have manners, listen to simple commands and play a simple game of follow the leader. That’s Me and once we have that down. I’ll work on the rest.
I was so proud to hear how well behaved they were at the groomers. It proved to me that the way I’m raising them is working. So all the tough times are worth it when someone pays me a compliment on how easy my dogs are to work with. A huge sigh of satisfaction and pride..Thank YOU Cesar!
I have read everyone of Cesar’s books as well as viewed every DW episode and his awesome instructional DVD’s. These resources are PRICELESS and have not only helped with some common behaviors but has helped me to work on becoming more calm and assertive. I am learning to keep my negativity in check so as to become a more stable leader.
Cesar has mentioned more than once that you CAN use positive-only methods, such as treats, IF this works successfully for your dog. He does not deny the place of positive-ony training and NEVER speaks negatively of those trainers that only use these methods. His method embraces the WHOLE person, as pack leader and their dog. I am grateful for his example and knowledge and his integrity in believing in the wonderful work he is accomplishing and NOT getting beat down by all the negativity that is constantly thrown his way…an which Victoria Stilwell is quite guilty of.
Theresa…you are so right! Guilt never solves anything and lends to poor self esteem and self worth. Something Cesar does is to not fall into the negativity of bad energy generated by brow beating. He is understanding, positive, and makes owners feel empowered. He is open minded, a tremendous role model and example.
I am so grateful to him for publishing his thoughts, techniques and “Way” into print. I have changed my energy and behavior….my older son has really gotten into working with the dogs, and for the first time in a really long time is feeling good about himself.
It’s so awesome to see all these intelligent comments from people who’ve been practicing Cesar’s techniques for such a long time and also really understand what he is all about (not just being a fanboy or degrading into a mindless petty argument).
Cesar’s way is a philosophy of living– If you remove the “dog” element from his teachings it will still vastly improve your life, and it’s not like it’s the only way or only approach. There are so many ways to get to the same place that Cesar takes you! However you get there doesn’t matter, only that you do. But I feel that too many of the posts online that are critical of Cesar fail to see it as a philosophy at all. They don’t even scratch the surface of what he teaches. They just see a man giving a dog a negative correction and stop right there and cry cruelty.
This causes the most important factors of his teachings to be lost on those criticisms and articles because really it’s all about YOUR ENERGY and CONFIDENCE and PACK LEADERSHIP. It is not about leash corrections or what have you. Those are only a tool. Ex: If verbal corrections work then you don’t need leash corrections. You use the tools that work but the most important thing is the INTENT and ENERGY behind those tools.
I do like both shows and have learned many things from both. I have to vote for Cesar though. His show is more a philosophy of exercise, discipline then affection and he empowers weak owners to be strong leaders for their dog’s sake. Victoria is more of a dog trainer which Cesar doesn’t claim to be. Cesar goes back to nature and uses dog body language instead of human commands to work with dogs and teaches their owners to do the same. He is a genius and has a rare gift. I have learned so much from his show and it has helped me work with the 200 fosters that have come through my home over the years. Some would have been put down because of problem behaviors if I hadn’t used Cesar’s methods to rehabilitate them.
I don’t buy the negative comments about Cesar or against corrections in training. I have a female foster that came with two pups at my house now. When I watch her I see Cesar and what he teaches. She corrects the pups with calm confident energy. She is never angry or abusive but definitely corrects the pups quickly and at the level they need. Often with just a growl the first time but then with a nip. If the behavior continues a harder nip is coming. The pups learn quickly from her in this way and aren’t afraid of her and don’t suffer any emotional problems because of these corrections. These are confident little well adjusted pups and she is a great mother.
I think Cesar is doing more for dogs than any other person in history. He is educating so many people about fulfilling their dogs need first instead of just making dogs into little furry kids to fulfill human needs. I know many people that have used and are using Cesar’s methods to save dogs that would be put down otherwise.
Cesar Milan is an amazing thoughtful human being and is only trainer/psychologist on TV that seems to truly understand dogs and their needs. Victoria doesn’t rehabilitate she just trains. I saw an episode of it’s me or the dog on 19 Apr 10 where she advised owners to put their spaniel down because he attacked their child. She was left with bruising a little cut. They put this poor dog down due to her advice – I was and still am absolutely disgusted. Cesar would never advise or agree with this. Victoria has no knowledge of dog psychology and i dont even think she is that good of a trainer. I find her methods annoying and drawn out! I once saw a programme where she said two pitbulls that didn’t get along would never get along and couldn’t be trusted together. Tell Cesar that!
Lisa, YES!
This is a great example of exactly why Cesar is so great, and why I think he is revolutionizing the way people look at dogs, not taking training back years as the positive-only crowd suggests.
What I notice is that frequently when someone is against something many times there’s this misconception about the ideas they are condemning. In this case Cesar is always lumped in as a “dog trainer” and that is simply not what he is. He was that for a short while when he came to America but he did not like it. Read his book people. Like Prego, it’s in there!
This is why I don’t think people really take the chance to get to know what Cesar is about before they just start to condemn him without taking a good long look at the materials that are openly out there for all the public to absorb.
Whenever the subject of dog training comes up he usually defers to 3rd parties. He has his trainer friend from LA, and then there’s the one trainer for the UK, and two other trainers I believe that basically direct the course of “Sit and Stay: The Cesar Way” while he points out the most important things that the trainer is doing and how this is affecting the dog energy-wise and stuff like that.
Honestly though I always thought it was really stupid when people put a dog down for biting someone else, from since I was a little kid. Kids know best, and they’re rarely shy about telling you what they think. Ever had a situation where a kid asks you why about something, and then the adult has a response, then the kid says “Well why did you do it in this situation?” and then like the adult pretty much has no answer, and just makes something up so the kid understands why that situation is more complicated than that or what not. In reality WE make that situation more complicated. The kid sees it for what it is.
In fact, kids asking why is a form of what I call the sacred question, and if you keep asking why over and over again you will get to the truth.
It’s sad when I hear “This dog will never get along with other dogs,” or “This dog just doesn’t like dogs,” or “This dog just doesn’t like that dog.” I’ve seen proof many times over that these statements are wrong. They are based in human psychology. I also hate when I hear “All [breed here] are [attribute here] and you’ll never get them to stop [attribute].” That’s exactly like saying that All of anything are a certain way. It’s an ultimate attribution error, and it’s not just dogs. How many people here have heard “all men are pigs,” or “women can’t drive.” Those statements are both equally ridiculous. There millions of men and women on the Earth, you can’t say this about EVERY SINGLE ONE. Same with dogs.
Alex,
Very good post, especially your last paragraph.
The trap that I worry about people getting caught in here (and not you specifically, Alex) is the same one that Cesar fans are speaking out against. Specifically, people confusing “positive-only” with “positive methods”. Let’s be careful not to lump together positive-based techniques with the “positive methods and NOTHING else” crowd. Positive methods are indispensable in the overall training and handling of any dog.
A good point you make is the fact we almost never (if ever) see any critics of Cesar compare him to other behaviorists – he is only compared to trainers. To be fair, to the average dog enthusiast a trainer and a behaviorist are one in the same. In reality there is a big difference, even though is of course overlap. In the context of behavior modification, training can be considered a tool in the rehabilitation process. When discussing training, we can’t truly train a dog until we help that dog achieve and maintain a balanced state of mind.
Honestly this is one of those endless discussions – similar to Rep vs. Dem, Mac vs. Windows, Carnivore vs. Vegetarian… I really like to advocate the “middle way”, or “BT” (balanced training), because it doesn’t exclude any techniques and it allows for more flexibility for any given dog / situation.
It’s similar to one of those discussions, but also the thing is Cesar uses a lot of positive reinforcement so while it does have the same endless effect as those discussions I think people don’t realize that Cesar does use positive reinforcement a lot, and also there tends to be either a misconception that it’s Cesar’s idea to use the prong collars, e-collars, etc. that you see on the show or they believe that by allowing them to use those tools that he condones specifically the use of tools that they think are outdated and cruel.
I was told by someone recently that I should not be using a slip lead on my dog, that I should only use either a regular collar or a halti. I felt really like bullied almost, and I kind of feel like if people find that something works for them, why make it a negative experience by telling them you can’t use that because it’s cruel in the opinion of some people.
The most important thing is the energy the people have and how they act around the dogs, which is already usually in need of much help. lol
Yes, I agree on all points you make. Although, there are times when Cesar will actually advocate the use of certain tools (prong collars, e-collars) for a specific situation / goal. At the same time, there are times when he will point out why these (and other) tools aren’t helping with the goals they set for a particular dog.
One example is when he pointed out that using a prong collar on a wolf-hybrid was working against the owners’ goals, because it was actually putting more drive into the dog that they were trying to calm down.
In either case, I always see him take the time to clearly explain the principles behind the tools. Why a prong collar – despite its medieval appearance – is actually a very humane tool when used properly. In my opinion, much more humane than a chain-slip (aka “choke chain”) collar. Same with an e-collar, most people have no idea what the principles are behind that tool. They think it’s all about “shocking” the dog, which when used correctly is not. Like you said – it’s not necessarily about the tool, but almost exclusively about the energy & knowledge behind it.
Looking at your slip lead example – is there a specific reason this person suggested a flat collar or Halti? Personally speaking – I can tell you a Halti is probably the most dangerous tool out there. It’s responsible for countless neck injuries & even deaths (ask any good vet tech about them), but ONLY because they were used improperly. And to be fair, I know people that use them with great success as well.
Not to sidetrack too far on the collar subject, but to me – watching someone allow a dog to pull-pull-pull on a flat collar for its entire life, choking and wheezing and putting all the consistent pressure on its throat – is what I would consider abusive. I’d much rather see a dog on a loose lead and corrected with a training collar 2% of the time, vs. seeing a dog on a tight lead, with pressure on it’s throat 98% of the time.
Anyways – good discussion & comments.
Exactly. Completely agreed.
There was the time when the dog was running around the front of the really large tractor and biting at the wheels trying to herd the tractor while it was moving forward.
Since timing is extremely important for corrections, it’s just not feasible for the owner to stop the tractor, get un-strapped if he has like a seatbelt (not really sure), jump off the tractor, and then go correct the dog.
That and the dog’s behavior was extremely dangerous to its life. Those cases are few and far between. Most of the time what he does is turn the leash into a slip lead, and with his dogs he says all he uses is the little nylon animal control leads and nothing else, which to me shows he MUST really be the Dog Whisperer because he still has hands lol
I suspect the woman told me this because she thinks the slip lead is cruel (thinking of it as a choke chain basically), and only for animal control purposes, but I agree with you about the halti. I had point out to me how in addition to how it jerks the neck, it also since they pull from the right side, the strap can put pressure on the eye/eyelid.
Fully agree with you about the last paragraph above the conclusion sentence. It can also cause trachea problems as well, and is just not fun for the dog. Not just the stress on the neck, but ask the average person how much they would enjoy always having to pull to go where they want to go and never being able to go there. That would cause very severe psychological problems. Dogs have the benefit where they want to please you, and want to follow you, and if you get their respect and become the pack leader, then they’re living a life doing what they want to do, instead of always fighting to do what they can never do.